20. Defeating the Narcissist with Lisa A. Romano

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[00:00:10] Meredith: energetically speaking, this is the face your shit, heal yourself year. And I think There's going to be a lot of truth telling and a lot, especially in the realm of sexual abuse.

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[00:00:31] Lisa: There's a period of a lot of pain and a lot of like, what is really happening? a lot of people, Oh, that's not happening. Well, someone like me, I knew it was happening. The people like, Oh, that could never happen. Right? the Catholic church that I grew up in, the pastor was a pedophile. Oh, you're such a negative person.

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[00:01:10] Are you a truth teller? I am and my guess is if you're listening to a show named face your shit heal yourself You are as well. The mask is dropping even further today in the second part of this special two part narcissism episode month as we unravel this topic with two of the top narcissism experts.

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[00:01:55] This was the very critical tip of the iceberg. So if you'd like to hear more, this episode is for you. Before we dive in Thank you for having the bravery to face your shit and heal yourself by listening to this show. In case you haven't noticed, we live in a very censored world. I mean, just the title of this show literally points to that.

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[00:02:40] Facing your shit and healing yourself is a movement. And you can join this movement with a one off donation or become a member for as low as 5. 5 a month and receive exclusive art, be featured on the show, submit questions for guests and more. So who am I and why did I decide to create this show? Good question.

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[00:03:31] The artwork shows what's happening in the brain as well as in the body during each phase and reveals how to biohack and leverage this energy in your life. I am actually living the art, so it's about more than just healing. The right and the art discuss truth, freedom, and our current financial and healthcare system, slavery, as well as the way out of it.

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[00:04:19] So all of that to say, even though I was lied to for years by doctors promoting Big Pharma, I was able to find experts who helped me achieve what I thought was impossible. This show introduces those people and practices to you.

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[00:05:02] Her unique approach to healing focuses on empowering individuals to take control of their lives and break free from the patterns of codependency and narcissistic abuse. Through her books, online courses, and coaching programs, Lisa provides practical tools and strategies that help individuals rebuild their sense of self, set healthy boundaries, and create fulfilling relationships.

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[00:05:52] Romano is the perfect choice. Her expertise, creativity, compassion, and ability to blend groundbreaking neuroscience with cutting edge trauma research with spiritual principles, Make her a standout in the field of mental wellness. Her 12 week breakthrough coaching program was recently endorsed by Robin Bryman, PhD.

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[00:06:24] Lisa: Well, this is my passion, so.

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[00:06:28] Lisa: truth.

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[00:06:51] Meredith: It's just telling the truth. So yeah, it is. And

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[00:06:53] Lisa: also it's complex, right? So like you have a passion. And, we're in this online space. So we have to build an online community. We have to have an online business. people have to know what we're passionate about. We have to find ways to share that. but there is this icky side of it, which is the business side of it.

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[00:07:32] Lisa: And, um, you know, so seriously, no, really everybody. And, the human mind likes kitty videos and. doggy videos and we can get swept away in this online forum. and so it's hard to compete with that. When you are someone who has such a passion, but we have to do it anyway.

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[00:07:59] Meredith: Absolutely. So well said to speaking of motivation and keep going, what would you say motivated you most to face your shit, leading you to just some of the incredible work you do today?

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[00:08:17] Lisa: motivated, a couple of things, it, when I realized that, and I came up with the tagline, it's not me, it's my programming. It just hit me like a ton of bricks. if we don't awaken, we're going to repeat what has been ingrained in us since childhood. We will have this inner narrative that is negative, that is punishing, that is shame based.

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[00:09:08] Lisa: Children are absolutely programmed the first seven years of life. So that was huge. And then of course as a mom, a young mom in my early thirties, I looked around and said, I drew three innocent sentient beings to planet earth. Outside of conscious awareness. What have I done? They have been affected by my unconsciousness And so those two key ideas like it wasn't my fault But it's programming, it could be no other way, but if I don't change it, nothing's going to change and the incredible responsibility that I had to correct the mistakes that I had made and represented and modeled for my children before I awakened.

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[00:10:18] Lisa: But I could not cling to the shreds of that relationship. Knowing what I had modeled for my children. I just couldn't do it. And I started to align with what I call love consciousness. I just said, I have to align with something greater than myself, greater than fear. And I know that the choices that I'm making, although I feel like I'm jumping out of a building with these three kids strapped to me, I know that I'm doing it out of love and I know that I'm doing it with good intentions.

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[00:11:00] Meredith: Yeah. Yeah. That's such a huge motivator and unfortunately sometimes not enough for most people, but I'm really glad that.you heard the call and that's what it is.

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[00:11:37] Lisa: Yeah,I think that I'm very fortunate.

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[00:12:03] Lisa: it was supposed to be that hard so that. If it hadn't been that hard, if I was just a little bit comfortable, I wouldn't have created the courses that I've created. I wouldn't have the community that I create. So I'm fortunate and I don't take that lightly that for what, whatever inner voice or force that was in me that I aligned with, I don't think that I did this by myself.

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[00:12:42] Meredith: Absolutely. Yeah. No one achieves anything alone, even if we think we really are just by the very nature of being here.

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[00:12:50] Meredith: I do think we

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[00:13:06] Lisa: Like why is this happening? Absolutely, but when we're thinking about why is this happening? We have to also recognize I'm not asking for help in that moment I'm saying this is where I am and it sucks And I can't imagine getting out. So I think what I did, I'm so grateful that I did. I called out and I asked for help.

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[00:13:44] Lisa: Ask, believe, and then you can receive.

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[00:13:47] Meredith: Totally. And there's so much info right now out there on narcissism, on asking for help, on, boundaries, self love deficient disorder, codependency. Let's talk about the root cause of narcissism as well as the spiritual framework, which you talked, touched on a little bit of narcissism and codependency.

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[00:14:20] Lisa: I think narcissism, well, there, there are some studies that say that you can be born with brain anomalies that will cause you to ebb in the direction of narcissism. Okay. I get that.

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[00:14:52] Lisa: but overwhelmingly narcissism seems to be tied to narcissistic injury. Where there is severe trauma, there is severe abandonment, and the way that the child protects themselves in terms of ego is a defense, it's an armor, their strategy is to take advantage of other people. It's to eat rather than be eaten.

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[00:15:32] Lisa: They are very punishing with their inner narrative. But when they say, when, They think about something, they drop something on the floor or they miss the trap, they miss the signal. They're thinking, you idiot, you stupid idiot, because they think they're morally superior and they should not make mistakes.

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[00:16:02] Meredith: But

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[00:16:13] Lisa: Just by being who they are. But if they took care of their parents feelings, if they became the over responsible sibling in the family, if they figured out how to be useful to other people, they could avoid criticism and possibly gain some semblance of an attachment. But it was always very conditional.

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[00:16:50] Meredith: codependent, but I

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[00:16:52] Lisa: And so I don't have a true self. I'm also wearing a mask. So and I'm shame based and the narcissist is shame based. So two very wounded people on opposite sides of the spectrum, but at least it looks that way, but have very similar needs. So a codependent is other focused, a narcissist is self focused.

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[00:17:29] Lisa: And what do I need? And what do I think? And what do I feel? I don't know what that's like. So it's much more comfortable for me, even though it's toxic, for me to be with someone who tells me what they think, and then I could adhere to that. I can mold to that. Tell me what they need, and then I could scurry and meet that.

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[00:17:52] Lisa: Or you just get, there's nothing left to give and you get sick. You get cancer or you get some other God awful disease, some autoimmune disease, or you become a reactive abuser, right? So because below the veil of consciousness, you're not aware of why you are the way you are, how you got there, or the subconscious dynamics responsible.

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[00:18:20] Meredith: ego, right? Would you say that? codependence are similar energetically speaking at to a covert narcissist Kind of feels that way grabbing from the outside. What would you say about that? I think that there's overlap.

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[00:19:04] Lisa: It's not my fault. I lost my job because my boss hates me Codependents that's usually not their narrative like a true codependent will empty themselves Like martyr themselves, but that doesn't mean there's not overlap. That doesn't mean that a codependent mother won't guilt her child for not Congratulating her or praising her on Facebook for the wonderful sweet 16 that she had there's overlap But there's there are some distinctions

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[00:19:34] Meredith: for sure.

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[00:19:56] Lisa: Absolutely. It's evil. we live in a dualistic world.

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[00:20:20] Lisa: But you recognize. With humility that I'm not always my best self. Right. Narcissist can't do that. Right. So I don't, that's why I talk about it early on in my career. 20 years ago, I started talking about this, I got a lot of flack for it. You're such a negative person. Right. And I'm like, do you teach your kids to look both ways before they cross the street?

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[00:20:42] Lisa: Well, you should teach them about vampires, emotional vampires, energetic vampires. You should teach them about the fact that there, there might be a bully, bully in their kindergarten and they should not seek their validation. I don't know where the stars are coming from. Do you?

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[00:21:05] Lisa: It's the weirdest thing,

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[00:21:08] Lisa: we should, and we should also, we Hold, we should teach empathy. We should be kind to one another and we should teach our children that their words matter. Right. And that we should also teach our children that there are other children out there, that don't really have that level of empathy.

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[00:21:45] Lisa: They're not going to feel empathy from their parents. They're not going to have empathy for the self and they're not going to develop empathy for other people.

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[00:22:07] Meredith: We won't just notice anyone everyone becomes invisible.

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[00:22:27] Lisa: Why did he treat his girlfriend like that? Mom? He's so negative. No, these are characteristics and these are flaws that They're not going to go away just because he's dating you, right? So now, especially my oldest daughter, she has a child. Oh, okay. now you understand. Now you understand we have to talk about this stuff.

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[00:23:09] Lisa: That's not cool. It's not cool. Right. And so if we could not shame a narcissist, but narcissists, but at least start talking about this idea that this is not the way to treat people. And we're aware of it. And I'm not afraid to say that I, this is narcissistic behavior and I prefer not to hang out with you.

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[00:23:48] Meredith: Right. I didn't

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[00:23:50] How toxic family members punish a truth teller

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[00:24:07] Lisa: it's wonderful.

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[00:24:34] Meredith: That's right. We will. We will totally post this in the show notes, it's so relevant for me. I think it's so relevant for so many people because there is just like you were talking about such a negative stigma or almost guilt trigger around going no contact. So we won't go into the entire video, but how do you think people can, first of all, identify a family dynamic like this and then.

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[00:25:10] Lisa: Well, what we have to understand is that, a narcissistic family is a closed system and it's shame based. So meaning that is it's oppressive now when you're in an oppressive system, you don't know it think about hitler's regime Right, like I don't i'm if i'm a german, I don't think i'm in an oppressive regime I just I believe what's being told.

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[00:25:48] Lisa: But usually it's oppressive. We're not allowed to talk the truth, say the truth. We're dancing around on eggshells. And usually there's one person, a truth teller, who's just like this. Like I'm not kissing this person's butt like do you not see what's going on? This is wrong. there's usually one person who feels oh, this is the Twilight Zone Like you don't see what's going on.

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[00:26:33] Lisa: And I noticed my siblings or my mother, my father can't say what they really feel. Or I have a conversation on the phone with them, but when we're around dad or mom or my brother or my sister. She acts like that never happened, The conversation never took place, right? It's like when I open my mouth at the dinner table, everybody puts their head down.

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[00:27:16] Lisa: They're going to gang up on you like a pack of wolves,

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[00:27:20] Lisa: your name is dragged through the mud and you're seen as crazy. You're discredited. And this is so difficult. And so having gone through that in my family, I saw that my brother had severe abandonment trauma with my dad and my mom. And so going against me.

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[00:28:04] Lisa: But the truth teller may want that mother or father's validation, but. There's, they have this feeling of injustice that's so strong that they rather they repel that. So they'll sacrifice themselves for truth because they just can't give into this sick system. But there's a consequence for that.

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[00:28:38] Meredith: yeah,

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[00:28:39] Lisa: It's insane. so that's what happens in terms of, contact. I think it's. It's situational, So for me, there was a time where after my divorce, it was so hard. My mom called me a liar. It was just a really bad time. It was just like, I have no skin on my body left. So you're either for me or you're against me.

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[00:29:28] Lisa: Yeah. No more pretending you didn't say what you said. No more ignoring the elephant in the room. You don't want to see it. That's fine. But I'm not staying here anymore. So after a few times, they came back into my life and they knew I, cause, ah, I, what did you say? Okay. kids. Come on. It's time to go.

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[00:30:01] Lisa: So was there trust there? No, I didn't have to trust them anymore. I trusted myself. That was over. That's how strong, that's how strong they made me.

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[00:30:16] Meredith: Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing that. Yeah, I totally relate. I have definitely gone through, I mean, listen, the name of the show is phase your shit, heal yourself.

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[00:31:14] Meredith: What would you say to someone who says that?

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[00:31:35] Meredith: You

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[00:31:40] Lisa: It's not natural for a mother to eat her young. It's not natural for a mother to tear her daughter and her son down. That's not natural. So it's not natural to save yourself and pull yourself from that dynamic. It's very hard. So I understand, I did it for years, well into my thirties, where I knew I was being abused or I knew it was wrong, but I didn't know what else to do about it.

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[00:32:28] Lisa: It's not going to be easy to go no contact. And there is no black and white answer. It is situational. That's really important. So you might have a mom who, is highly abusive. And every time you're with her, she attacks you verbally. Well, that might be someone that you need to really limit contact with, or maybe she's nice around you when aunt Mary's in the room and uncle Joe's in the room.

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[00:33:16] Lisa: I think that's the best case scenario, but I also realize that, it is situational. you have to really see, certainly if you have an entire family system that is hell bent on bringing you down, as hard as that is, it might be better for you to go find your new tribe.

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[00:33:36] Lisa: Because these, the, when a narcissistic family singles out one person, it becomes a gang mentality and everybody is looking for the matriarch, the narcissist to pat them on the back and say, good girl for hating her.

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[00:34:15] Lisa: Right? and here we go, the child, the daughter is sacrificed. Because of the mother's narcissism, the mother's envy. And so that's just as damaging, having someone in your family that sees it, but doesn't do anything about it. Now, just to save yourself, you have to excise yourself from that person. that's like someone watching you get beat up and saying, Oh, I don't know if I can help, right?

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[00:34:43] Meredith: Yeah,

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[00:35:01] Lisa: Okay, dad. Got it. Okay. No problem.

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[00:35:07] Lisa: Mm hmm. It shouldn't be that way You know, it shouldn't be that way the way it should be is like you're a child. What's right is right What's wrong is wrong rather this subjective morality, Like I decide what's right or wrong like the fact that I'm a child.

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[00:35:42] Meredith: Yeah.

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[00:35:51] Lisa: No,

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[00:36:13] Lisa: Oh yeah. And it's also us not transcending the tribal instinct, right?

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[00:36:39] Lisa: Which is sacrificing the divine in you and your potential for this breadcrumb relationship And so you could have anything that you want, right? You can step into The infinite intelligence inside of you. You can step into your divine self. You can connect to source You can create anything that you want, but you're sacrificing it for this tribal intelligence innate instinct.

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[00:37:05] Meredith: Yeah. And you make that grow. You make that person and that disease and that dynamic and that way of treating people, that's what you're contributing to. You're not contributing to higher love and oneness and unity, which is the truth of energy.

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[00:37:29] Lisa: and this is the whole thing is that, the brain operates through the recticular activating system. These are subconscious processes,pain and pleasure are what operate it.

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[00:38:03] Lisa: level up your consciousness because that's level one. You're in the cornfield and you don't even know it. Level two is I'm above the cornfield. Oh my God, that's programming. This is abandonment trauma, right? Like my mother's still in control over me. I'm a 50 year old physician and I'm afraid.

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[00:38:40] Lisa: So now i'm actively consciously In awareness breaking a pattern and level four, if you stick with this long enough, that's where you experience your freedom, your oneness with the divine. That's where you experience the flow. That's where you step into your power. you find your mission in life.

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[00:39:09] Meredith: Yeah. That's the best part that there is no free lunch because it's truly yours.

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[00:39:37] Lisa: And once you get out of the old patterns and programming, then you're in the field of potential. Now you create anything. You're untethered to the past, right? I found that the first, the initial breaking of the contact and, getting a divorce and seeing my family for who they are, that was the hardest part.

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[00:40:13] Lisa: I cared less what my brother was going to say. I cared less about my ex texting me. I just cared less. So the further and further I went, people give up too soon or they're not willing to push past that pain point.

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[00:40:28] Lisa: Right. But you got to push past that pain point. You've got to set a new goal. Like I will be free of this.

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[00:41:03] Meredith: Yeah, I will be free of this. So beautiful. And that's something that I definitely told myself in my healing journey. One of the things that did the most heavy lifting, of course you do the detoxes, you take care of yourself on a biological level, but for me healing my chronic disease, endometriosis, going no contact with narcissism, narcissists, learning about it, healing the wounds in myself that made me a match to it, realizing, becoming that galvanized empath that you talk about so much.

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[00:41:43] Lisa: Oh yeah.

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[00:41:44] Meredith: So what is one thing you could recommend all people start today and one thing they could stop today to help them on that healing journey to help them heal from those toxic family patterns?

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[00:42:29] Lisa: Most people get up, never question, where are these thoughts coming from that populate in my brain? That's what the conscious field is meant to do. It's just meant to stream a stream of consciousness. However, that stream of consciousness that you see and hear is from the subconscious mind. It's from yesterday.

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[00:43:08] Lisa: Yeah, that's what happened. That's how my mom died. That's how my dad died. The people in my family died asleep. They never lived one conscious day. They lived out their patterns, alcoholism, the whole bit. So in terms of what's one thing, if you understand that, then a very practical thing to do is to recognize that your goal is to slow down your thoughts.

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[00:43:52] Lisa: So this idea of I have to milk the awareness, I have to flex metacognition, which is, we don't talk enough about that in psychology, in therapy. We just want to medicate you and get you to come and tell us about how bad your life sucks We don't want to teach you that you have metacognition And you can observe the way that you think and question the way that you think and make connections and then decide how you want to think That's a novel concept.

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[00:44:42] Lisa: Cause it takes about 20 minutes for the, Average human mind to slow down during meditation. So commit to 45 minutes. What's the goal? The goal is to just begin to slow down the stream of thoughts in your head Right once they start to slow down then what happens is you find a space now suddenly you're observing your thoughts Where before you would just your thoughts, there was no separation.

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[00:45:31] Lisa: You can observe that feeling and that feeling might be completely valid, but if you can create that space where you're observing. You just had this thought. Yeah. Or you had the impulse, this egoic impulse to text the X back. Mm-Hmm. like I saw it versus reacting to it. Well, when you reacted to it, you had no space.

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[00:46:19] Lisa: You have to decide, but you can't do that without that space. So meditation is huge. Just start meditating becoming aware, right? And there are other things that you can do if you're trying to heal from a narcissistically abusive relationship But that's a great place to start. and the second question was about no contact.

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[00:46:37] Meredith: was what would you say one thing to stop today to help them heal?

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[00:46:57] Lisa: You want to stop seeking validation. You want to stop doing things on social media. you have to stop dressing because you hope someone notices you have to stop going on dates Wondering if this person is gonna think you're a slob because you order more than a salad.

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[00:47:37] Lisa: Just slow it down. Slow your roll. Just relax. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Slow it down.and if you could find the space with meditation and then stop seeking validation Rather than perpetuating just you have to stop. You have to gain emotional control, right? You got to be a big girl You got to be a big boy.

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[00:48:18] Meredith: Yeah.

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[00:48:20] Lisa: That's what you have to do. That's how you win.

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[00:48:27] Lisa: Correct.

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[00:48:29] Lisa: That's correct. And then you step into the light.

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[00:48:45] Lisa: Right. So now what happened, literally your power, your connection to source is eclipsed. Because you're worried about this person. And so that's why they're so dramatic. They want you walking on eggshells, wondering about what they're thinking. But when you are psychically addicted to that person, you are so far from your own source and source cannot operate in your life.

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[00:49:35] Lisa: I know who you are and now all this attention that I gave you is now on me. Good luck with that. That's

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[00:50:04] Meredith: I had to catch myself the other day when I'm feeling, I'm like explaining and validating why I like this house, why I want to move here, why I'm like, wait a second. I don't have, you don't have to get it. I just have to get it. It's right. Why am I? And of course it's a fine line.

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[00:50:40] Lisa: I get permission, right? I get permission, right? And so yeah, and also like social media it's why I get so turned off with the George Clooney's or the Miley Cyrus's or even the Taylor Swift's you know it's so settled the programming you should vote like me No, I don't have to vote for you like you right and I'm not a bad person if I like your music But I don't like the way you vote And so it's even at the level of celebrity, how we're all being indoctrinated to think a certain way, to have this group think because George Clooney thinks this way.

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[00:51:44] Lisa: And so it's even at that level where we're being conditioned to seek their approval.

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[00:51:51] Lisa: F that. I don't need your approval. I don't care if it Kim Kardashian or George Clooney or mother Teresa, I don't need your approval. I'm going to, I'm going to use my mind to think the way I want to think, to see what I see and use logic and reason to come to, what I think is a logical conclusion based on what I feel is right for me.

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[00:52:14] Meredith: Yeah.

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[00:52:18] Meredith: Yeah.

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[00:52:36] Lisa: All right. We'll see

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[00:52:37] Meredith: If you, Lisa, could describe power of healing from narcissistic abuse.

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[00:52:55] Lisa: Any art medium? I would probably say media. In other words, like movies, motion pictures.because I do think that, it is a form of programming.I do believe that, what we put out in terms of media, and you think about millions of people sitting in a movie theater, having similar vibrational reactions to movies.

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[00:53:47] Lisa: It would, lean towards, independence and autonomy and tolerance. This idea that we're separate, but one, this idea that, we can flip this paradigm. We can create a beautiful world. I would not perpetuate separation of any kind. I would not bring the past into it. I would say, this is who we are. This is, we are humanity.

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[00:54:25] Meredith: Wow. I love that. One of my mantras in my business is art is a lie that helps us realize the truth.

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[00:54:52] Sexual abuse + Child Porn

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[00:55:18] Lisa: So this idea that, what we put out in terms of media is very powerful. It affects the minds. Right. So if I think in a new world or in a healthier world, that would be where we went, but in a dualistic society where they are elite are in control, and I believe that they want power over people.

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[00:56:04] Lisa: No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

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[00:56:07] Lisa: we love one another We do right if you were to fall on the street 35 strangers would call 9 1 1 Yeah, but if you don't need me they walk past you choke in a restaurant somebody stands up and does gives the Heimlich right like This idea that we're really not good to each other is a lie.

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[00:56:46] Lisa: I'm not falling for it.

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[00:57:09] Meredith: I know that was a story for me as a child. and that was before AI and stuff. So it's only perpetuating everything that was already there. And I think we're going to really. I think the light is going to be shined on all of us.

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[00:57:37] Lisa: There's a period of a lot of pain and a lot of like, what is really happening? Like a lot of people, Oh, that's not happening. Well, someone like me, I knew it was happening. The people like, Oh, that could never happen. Right? the Catholic church that I grew up in, the pastor was a pedophile. Oh, you're such a negative person.

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[00:58:18] Lisa: just be a strong, grounded force and understand this has to come to light. That's what's supposed to happen. And it's uncomfortable. But eventually we'll have a new norm, but we have to do, we have to do better. We have to protect our babies. This is, no, that has to be what we focus on. Our children have to matter.

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[00:58:39] Meredith: A thousand percent. And we could do a whole other episode on that. Trust me. Something I'm super passionate about as well. It has just been. So real chatting with you today.

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[00:58:55] Meredith: You just tell the truth. Just like we've been talking about.

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[00:59:01] Meredith: exactly. Tell us where people can find you. And of course we're going to list. Resources and all your info in the show notes. Where can people learn more about your work and connect with you?

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[00:59:14] Lisa: They can go to my website at www. lisearomano. com. yeah, I have my own podcast called breakdown to breakthrough. but if you really want to get in contact with me, it would be www. lisearomano. com or coach at lisearomano. com.

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[00:59:28] Lisa: the A. The second A. There's two A's. Yes.

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[00:59:32] Meredith: Well listen, you're everywhere.

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[00:59:37] Meredith: Lisa A. Romano. Yeah. Yeah. Then you'll find

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[00:59:46] Meredith: Thank you so much. You have helped me in ways that you'll never even know because I'm just, I'm so grateful.

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[01:00:17] Meredith: We will see you all next time

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[01:00:20] Meredith: Bye guys

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[01:00:33] Meredith: family and friends, or subscribe with the link below to receive exclusive perks. And if you're feeling really generous, please leave a review on Pod chaser dot.

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