11. Transforming Pain to Power with Lisa de Jong

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[00:00:10] Lisa de Jong: just be there. be present. And if you get it wrong, it's fine, because we're like, a lot of women don't know either. Do you know? We're getting stuff wrong all the time. So Yeah, it is, it's an important one that we do all come from a menstrual cycle. if it wasn't for the menstrual cycle, we wouldn't be here.

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[00:00:31] Meredith: If you are anything other than a woman, you may think that the menstrual cycle and period pain doesn't really affect you. But in fact, the only reason you exist here today in this world is because someone at a period. In this episode, we're chatting about how to transform your pain to your superpower with your cycle, chronic pain, trauma, and burnout.

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[00:01:22] Meredith: So who am I and why did I decide to create this show? Well after unraveling all of the medical and pharmaceutical lies, I had been told about my endometriosis. I educated myself and I was able to heal myself after 17 years of debilitating pain. whether it's Endo or any other disorder labeled as chronic, we expose the lesser known solutions that can heal your mind, your body, and your spirit.

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[00:02:17] Meredith: Watch for the newest release on the last Friday of this month and be the first to see it by subscribing on my website, meredith ochoa.com. you can also check out these super cool, and you can see this if you're on YouTube, $50 bite size. As you can literally bite them. Acrylic block art pieces.

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[00:02:59] Meredith: Feel yourself. So even though I was lied to for years by doctors promoting big pharma, I was able to find experts who helped me achieve the impossible. This show introduces them to you. Today we are chatting with Health coach, therapeutic practitioner and educator. Lisa de Jong. Lisa specializes in women's health, the menstrual cycle, chronic pain and trauma.

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[00:03:42] Meredith: She brings a gentle, yet powerful touch to her clients and groups supporting them in the understanding of their body Most of her clients are those who have already been around the block to doctors, medical professionals, courses, have read books, et cetera.

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[00:04:18] Meredith: Prior to this work, she has a background in communications and business with a degree from Trinity College in Dublin, and business and French, and a Master's of Philosophy and linguistics. In her free time, she enjoys being with friends, family, traveling, and drinking tea. She's an aunt of three and lives in.

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[00:04:47] Lisa de Jong: Thank you, Meredith. Yeah, I'm Okay. Today I am on day three of my cycle. so there's a little tenderness still there, but I'm really good and I'm really glad to be here chatting with you again because you were on my podcast, I think a month ago or so.

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[00:05:18] Lisa de Jong: you for, we'll keep it

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[00:05:25] Lisa de Jong: a lot. I mean, I have profound thoughts.

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[00:05:32] Meredith: you know? Got it. I do understand that. Totally. Yeah. So being on day three of your cycle, what'd you have for breakfast this morning?

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[00:05:53] Lisa de Jong: Eat anything. 'cause it, it takes me a while to kind of wake up. Mm. And then I had an egg and toast and I actually, on Wednesdays I go to yoga. So it's important for me to get some protein before I do movement. So that's what I did. Yeah.

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[00:06:11] Lisa de Jong: toast.

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[00:06:14] Meredith: I'm obsessed with totally. And I like it. I do over medium. Because I'm like, I gotta have that yolk.

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[00:06:29] Meredith: it.

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[00:06:48] Meredith: I'd love for you to share about your focus of moving from pain to power as a coach and as a therapist, and just how you got started in this field.

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[00:06:59] Lisa de Jong: Yeah, it's a good question. it's quite a long story. So I start, I won't go into all the details, but, okay. I'll take on a little journey. So I had chronic period pain since I was a teenager, since I began menstruating.

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[00:07:35] Lisa de Jong: And then I discovered that I'd never been taught about my menstrual cycle adequately before. So I began educating myself about. The endocrine system, hormones, the nervous system. I started to take courses. then I learned a practice called Menstrual cycle awareness and about the inner seasons of the menstrual cycle.

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[00:08:12] Lisa de Jong: You know? And, but I would call in sick and it was just this, it was just this like mystery hanging over me every month, and I just never could get to the bottom of it. And then, My mental health was pretty bad at the time as well. I had a lot of anxiety, so there was kind of a lot of chronic pain on all different levels of me happening.

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[00:08:58] Lisa de Jong: And then I had an opportunity where a journalist wanted to feature my work in the mainstream media in Ireland. So that was a really, you know, great opportunity. And it was a good time as well. It was a few years before. The, pandemic and the conversation of the menstrual cycle was becoming a little bit more mainstream.

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[00:09:35] Lisa de Jong: So it's just been a lot of learning and a, it's, you know, very much been an organic journey. The path has really led itself and I've just stayed present and curious and followed it. I mean, it's been very up and down. Mm-hmm.but yeah, I'm very, happy to say now that I work with clients, with groups and I teach professionals as well.

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[00:10:16] Meredith: Yeah. Yeah. And it's so necessary, right now and it's been necessary throughout history, throughout all time. And I feel like specifically women have just been bulldozed and really bulldozed themselves. We bulldozed ourselves in not really looking and honoring our bodies and our cycle. And it's interesting that point you made about the pandemic because I feel like one of the silver linings.

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[00:11:04] Meredith: So it's just a really. Really interesting path that took for you.

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[00:11:10] Lisa de Jong: Yeah, thank you. Like I was, forced to go down it because it was like, like you, my pain was really bad To the point where I, you know, I'll be really honest with you. I was having suicidal thoughts and Yeah, just it was really bad.

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[00:11:43] Lisa de Jong: You know, who, who helped me along the way.

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[00:12:04] Meredith: I know. You know, it was never like that. No. It was like, how the hell am I gonna get through this next second? Right. Yeah.

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[00:12:32] Lisa de Jong: So it is, it's it's a practice of being present, isn't it? In your body when you have chronic pain, it really asks for you to stay present with the experience and meet your needs with where you're at and not. Go off interpreting things and projecting into the future. That's my tendency. My tendency is to be like, oh, I've, I have pain again, and I've done all this work, and yeah, it's just gone.

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[00:13:07] Trauma Trends

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[00:13:11] Meredith: What do you think are some of the most common stories or challenges that you hear about when women come to you with chronic pain with trauma and burnout?

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[00:13:31] Lisa de Jong: So I'll explain what I mean by that is a lot of people think it's only in their diet or in a lifestyle thing. Like they need to be doing more meditation or more yoga, or more exercise. Or there's a practical thing that needs to be like, they need to do something differently or behave differently or they need to completely change their diet.

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[00:14:17] Lisa de Jong: Have the skills and the capacity or the safety to feel uncomfortable feelings. I know we talked about this before and how, whether it's feelings in the present because of circumstances or feelings from the past because of. Things that happened, you know? I work from a trauma-informed perspective, so there's a reason why we don't feel feelings, and there's nothing wrong with you if you struggle with that, but it does eventually take a toll and we pay a price for that.

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[00:15:04] Lisa de Jong: I see a lot of people who are very intuitive, highly sensitive, creative individuals with these difficulties. And then they have all these big feelings. but when we block them, it's It's a lot of pressure. It's like we're trying to stuff a lot of energy down into this container when actually we need to loosen the container and then the body becomes a bit more free and that tension like we let go of tension when we allow ourselves to feel our feelings.

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[00:15:34] The Body's Response to The Patriarchy + Sexism

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[00:15:51] Meredith: The patriarchy and the overbearing this throughout history. There was something about that I thought I remember that specifically. Especially when you were talking about some of the common issues that people come to you with because it's part of the collective understanding of anyone that experiences a period to ha, you know, when you have estrogen and estrogen dominance, the.

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[00:16:30] Lisa de Jong: Yeah, it's a really big question and I,do think about that a lot. I think like how we're interconnected, not just on the physical, but also like the, so this, the, systemic view is a view that I work with in my work and that collective view.

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[00:17:01] Lisa de Jong: So that first half when you're coming out of menstruation, That is the half of the cycle where the hormone estrogen is rising. So that's the estrogen side of the menstrual cycle. And from the Chinese medicine point of view, that is the yang or the masculine energy. So that's the coming out of the cave and you know, ready to exercise again and do things and be productive in the world.

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[00:17:43] Lisa de Jong: So estrogen dominance is where, We have more estrogen in relation to progesterone. Okay. And so there's a dominance in the ratios. And when there is estrogen dominance that can lead to inflammation. And then that can have an impact on conditions like endometriosis, P C O S, any kind of inflammatory condition in the body.

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[00:18:28] Lisa de Jong: And so I think the way I see it is like it makes sense to me that a lot of us are like that because our environment is like that and our culture is like that. So of course our bodies are gonna respond to that. So that's kind of how I see it. And there's loads of ways that you can counteract that through diet and reducing chemical intake, you know, and like practical things.

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[00:19:08] Lisa de Jong: And I'll give you an example. a lot of us, myself included, when, you know, if you have a job and you feel sick, the majority of us will feel guilty or bad for calling in sick into work, right? And we're, we don't like in a lot, even the. The, you know, the employment laws in the countries aren't set up to encourage people to call in sick.

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[00:19:46] Lisa de Jong: And if we're pushing and burning out, then we're paying a huge price for, in terms of our health o over the long term, giving yourself permission to rest and seeing rest as a proactive thing, as opposed to a reactive thing that helps you to. nourish yourself and have your, you know, reconnect to your zest again and not just be in survival mode all the time.

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[00:20:28] Meredith: Yeah, that's such beautifully said, especially the piece about, you know, just being who you are and honoring your body. Is rejecting. It's not like go out and hate men. That's not like, no, no, no. honoring your body has nothing to do with anyone else except for you. It's a very internal, going from the inside rather than going out here and saying, it's your fault, it's your responsibility.

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[00:21:14] Meredith: Kind of the difference in masculine, feminine, they're polarities, they have nothing to do with sex or gender or really anything. It's polarities of energy. And the way we live in our society, like you said, is just all about what's on the outside, what you're producing, work, all of that. And so the goal is not to have either one to just be feminine or just be masculine.

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[00:21:57] Lisa de Jong: Yeah. We'd be living more in the spectrum, you know, there isn't. It's not black and white. There's a lot of gray area. And yeah, no, it's not, definitely not. When I use the term patriarchy, I know you know this, but it definitely isn't anything about like hating men or anything. It's more about the values that patriarchy upholds and the invisible rules that, it asks us to follow and, the valuing of the linear and productivity, at the cost of our wellness and all that kind of thing.

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[00:22:24] Lisa's message of making your own decisions

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[00:22:45] Lisa de Jong: That's such a good question. I wish this was actually a thing that I could do. So my answer to that is when you asked that, the first thing that came to my head was make your own decisions. And the reason I say that, I know that's it sounds easy, but it's lottie. Easier said than done.

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[00:23:36] Lisa de Jong: but then they can get very stressed about not doing it all correctly or doing the right things or doing it all. And what's really important is that we are able to live our life from this value of take what you like and leave the rest and You know, give yourself permission to. Just try things when you want and really get curious about what your preferences are.

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[00:24:13] Lisa de Jong: And be really clear about whether something is coming from a should systemic, cultural thing that we're shoulding ourselves or if we do have access to our own internal compass. Like you talk a lot about a lot in your work,your intuition, your inner guide, and building that up and learning how to really.

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[00:24:55] Lisa de Jong: And there's a lot of healing in that. Yeah.

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[00:25:19] Meredith: Yeah. Which is, yeah. which is wonderful and which is why we get so many benefits out of it.

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[00:25:25] Lisa de Jong: Yeah. And it can be, yeah. And it can be so hard to do. 'cause a lot of people don't know what they want. 'cause they're so used to following whatever and you know, and that's.

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[00:25:50] Lisa de Jong: Like what is your curiosity saying to you and where is it leading you? And can you, like what, if you go into an ice cream shop and you're looking at all the flavors and you're moved towards one flavor over another, like why? what is it about that particular flavor that you prefer and get curious about what is it in you that's drawing you to that flavor or color or whatever it is.

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[00:26:22] Meredith: Yeah. And that's the best part. There's no destination, like the whole thing is the journey.

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[00:26:49] Meredith: It's all perspective, the way you look at it. Yeah, but it's like that journey piece who, that when you get to a certain point and you're like, oh, I reached this part that I thought was a destination. Then you realize, oh, but it was really all about what I just experienced. yeah. 'cause that lasts for two seconds and then you're like, it's this constant state of evolving and ascension and it gets into a more spiritual conversation as you know.

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[00:27:16] Lisa de Jong: yeah, I know. And then you realize oh, I, there's no, there was no need to for me to question myself and spend so much energy, like doubting myself for so long. 'cause. You know, and then you start to, you just start to be easier on yourself, don't you? The more you go through the journey.

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[00:27:48] Lisa de Jong: Okay. That's very, that's because it would be different for everyone who I'd work with.

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[00:28:14] Lisa de Jong: It's very easy and it's very, you see results very quickly, and I like a practical tip that you can get results from quickly. You know, it keeps you motivated. So, the, there's loads of ways to do that, but the one thing I would consider is, like we were chatting about at the start, is to include healthy fats in as many meals as you can.

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[00:28:51] Lisa de Jong: So that's one thing I would recommend people to, to start doing. And the other thing, you said something to people to stop doing. What comes to mind is, Isolating yourself. I think it's really important to be in connection and have people, even one person in your life, Going back to the suppressing your emotions thing, that's such a huge part of our health that we don't talk about enough.

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[00:29:34] Lisa de Jong: For you to be heard, It's a really healthy thing for you to do. So yeah, that would be the, that would be the proactive piece about, you know, don't isolate. 'cause I think that isolation is, a huge part of the problem when it comes to pain.

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[00:29:49] Meredith: Yes. It's such a lonely road, as you know. Mm-hmm.

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[00:30:14] Meredith: I mean, people are starting to know now, but. At our time and even, you know, a lot of people still in the mainstream don't know that there's resources out there. Yeah. That you don't have to. There's a very limited number of options presented to people in chronic pain. It's usually some type of intrusive surgery or some type of really harsh drug.

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[00:31:01] Meredith: I'm sure you wish to say, I wish I would've known that there was this entire community so much earlier. I'd love for you to. speak about some of those very unique and valuable resources that you've developed for self-care During endometriosis specifically,

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[00:31:28] Lisa de Jong: It's called End Endometriosis, A Self-Care Journey, because a lot of the advice about endometriosis. Is about like really helpful, like practical things, like I said, diet, and then there's loads of guidance in terms of, if you are looking for a surgeon, I highly recommend the Facebook group, Nancy's Nook, which I refer to in my course.

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[00:32:05] Lisa de Jong: And then there's lots of practical things you can do. there's so many things I do. for example, like the blood sugar thing is really important for me. Before I menstruate, I will make sure that I have food in the house, you know, so I'm not left without food, practical things like that. I also do acupuncture.

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[00:32:42] Lisa de Jong: Really it's thinking about how you can reduce inflammation and support your relationship with yourself. and then I have as well a menstrual cycle tracking, journal and on my website and I have, another course which is all about trauma and chronic pain. And that's all learning about, Yeah, like how to regulate your nervous system better.

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[00:33:11] Men's role in menstruation

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[00:33:16] Meredith: There's actually, that course you spoke about a little bit as like an add-on for health practitioners about Yeah, yeah. This girl. Yeah. I love, I've just like, this should be required education for. Anyone that is coaching, especially when you're coaching women or anyone that has a period or is dealing with this, even partners, men.

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[00:34:01] Lisa de Jong: at.

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[00:34:07] Meredith: a partner course. It's such a critical, yeah. It's so critical. And I remember a lot of the therapists, that I saw on my journey, like pelvic floor, physical therapist, and then, I saw a sex therapist as well from some of the sexual trauma experienced.

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[00:34:50] Meredith: Yeah. So I don't know if anything comes outta my mouth is gonna be bad. So I'm just gonna not say anything and it's like the quickest way to get a guy to stop talking to you. Just talk about your period. I know. They Run like away. So it's so indicative of the society you live in where it's so.

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[00:35:18] Lisa de Jong: that? Oh my God, it's so true. there's a lot there in that, what you've said, Meredith, it's so true. Like I have loads of male friends who I talk to about my work, but then like I have one friend, God bless him.

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[00:35:42] Lisa de Jong: don't, don't question yourself. It's okay. there's no wrong, you know, there's literally no wrong and we need you, we need the men to, to be there, you know, and I'm similar to you, very lucky to have a very supportive partner and he doesn't like, yeah, thankfully he doesn't question himself because I'll be like a lot of work for me to have to validate him all the time, which I don't need that either, you know?

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[00:36:18] Lisa de Jong: So, there's a huge amount of power in that. No wonder we've been oppressed in it. Huge,

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[00:36:24] Meredith: huge. And it's such an opportunity for. Men to also support that. Yeah. And you know, everyone lived in a world our earth operates cyclically. Yeah. everything seasons. It's all connected. It

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[00:36:50] Lisa de Jong: That's one of the tools, right? Resting and moving slowly with your energies. And you do start to think oh, I have to rest more, and how can I do that? Because I have loads to do. But the more you start to live it, and the more you start to integrate it really gently, like on. On Monday this week, it's Wednesday today.

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[00:37:22] Lisa de Jong: You do become really creative and really productive in ways that you've never been before when you start to live in this more cyclical way, so you're not missing out. In fact, you're actually really improving that internal qi and zest on connection to yourself and. Higher power and your energy and you just have so much more access to energy and it's There's so much more to live for, you know, you're, I'm just not in survival mode anymore like I used to be.

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[00:38:05] Meredith: No. Cranking it out like hell no, no. It needs time to marinate, to sit. Yeah. You know, to develop, to grow.

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[00:38:28] Lisa de Jong: You know? Yeah, absolutely.

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[00:38:31] Meredith: And now the nicest time is the biohacking with Art Time. Are you ready? Yes. All right. It is our finale question. It's my favorite part of show. Anyone could tell. If you could describe your healing philosophy of going from pain to power with any art medium. How would you make it and what would you choose?

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[00:38:58] Lisa de Jong: I've actually done this already, Meredith, so this is an easy question for me. I love it. It's actually, let's go. Actually, I'm so cheating with this. I'm cheating because I didn't make it well, I kind of did. So I'll tell you the story I worked with, uh, branding designer. Last year to create a logo for my work and I'd already been doing my work for, so, and by the way, if you're a coach or a professional who is wanting to start like working with people, It's a really good idea to start your work and then do your branding a few years later.

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[00:39:46] Lisa de Jong: Mm-hmm. And then her job was to design some logos, et cetera, for my brand. And one of the things, so I'm half Irish, half Dutch, and hence my surname is my, so my surname is a Dutch name. And my mother, my dad is Dutch. My mom is Irish, and my mother's side of the family come from, An area in Ireland where they speak Gaelic.

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[00:40:34] Lisa de Jong: And I don't know if any of your listeners have been to Ireland, but there's like, All these, there's a very certain type of art that you see when you Google like Celtic design. It's all like spirals and curls and all these really cool designs. And so my going forward then to my web designer, she was asking me are there any kind of like designs that you.

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[00:41:12] Lisa de Jong: And then, anyway, long story short, she came back to me with my logo, one of the logos, and it was this beautiful like circle with a spiral in the middle, it's kind of like a spiral, but it's got four corners. Mm-hmm. And it's very classy looking. Yeah. And she said to me, and she had the little description beside it, and she said to me, this, you know, depicts, it's linked to Celtic design and your history, but it also depicts the journey that your clients go on in their journey from pain to power.

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[00:42:18] Lisa de Jong: Yeah. Oh my

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[00:42:37] Meredith: and how much you tell the truth about who you are, what you are, like that is what is your competitive edge. That's what makes you different. That's what separates you, is just being you. And it's that's such a. It's literally a symbol of your history and also your forward progression and your work here.

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[00:43:18] Meredith: what are you about? And it's really telling like that energy and that story, even if people don't understand and they're seeing like these lines, it's still there.

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[00:43:34] Lisa de Jong: I. Because I was so close to him, my grandfather, and he just did such amazing work and also in Celtic history, there's so much connected to the cyclical, like the moon and the sun and the stars and the Celtic calendar as well. That really aligns with the menstrual cycle too. So it's just, yeah, it's just like very synchronistic that she put that together for me.

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[00:43:58] Meredith: Yeah. Beautiful. Awesome. it has been so powerful, this conversation with you today, and it's been just such a privilege to have you on. I would love for you to share where people, and of course we're gonna list all of this in the show notes, but where can people find you and learn more

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[00:44:18] Lisa de Jong: Thank you so much for having me, Meredith. Been so lovely to chat with you, and I really loved your questions so people can find me on Instagram if you just type in Lisa de Young, d e j o n g. And I'm also, I have a website so you can find everything, all the resources and everything about me and my work on my website, lisa de young coaching.com.

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[00:45:03] Lisa de Jong: Thank you.

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[00:45:27] Meredith: YouTube or on Apple Podcast and pick up a signed copy of my book about how I healed myself from endometriosis on my Instagram at Meredith w Ochoa. Thank you so much for listening and for having the bravery to face your shit and heal yourself.